Sounds of San Soo

[kfss4life]

How many sounds are there in this art?
Hak for chop
Yak for punnch
Wok for claw
Dak for snap kick
Yak also for power front kick
are there any more?And what about weapons forms?I have heard the sound Yip before.
I would love to here Master Cory's knowledge on this subject

Salute,
Bill F.

[Dave]

Haa = Down punch or palm. Driving motion like a hammer; very powerful, think of driving your opponent into the ground. Also for a driving kick.
Yacc = Straight punch. Sharp, crisp, for quick snap. Also includes palm, poke, jab, etc., anything with quick snapping action.
Wacc = Roundhouse claw; works well when pulling your claw back into your center.
Dekk = Kicking. Sharp, crisp; used for quick snap kicks.


There is a fifth sound on some lists. Im not sure about it though. These four cover a wide dynamic range of breathing through the diaphragm. These sounds are like training wheels. If you learn to use them when you do your form you will generate huge amounts of power in your movements.  Once you learn where each sound makes you breathe (position in the diaphragm) then you just mimic that breath pattern and start breathing correctly. Use them when you work out, but form is the most useful exercise for these sounds. During your workout, you should just practice correct breathing habits. (Breathe white belts!!) Form is where you will really put these sounds to use. If you learn to use these sounds interchangeably with each movement of the form you will gain speed, grace and power. And it will radiate through your form.  I strive, to this day, to perfect this kind of training. It can be done, but it wont come overnight. Your breath is the life force that dictates how your mind and your body work together as one.

Bill,
The sounds translate to the weapons forms just the same, you just need to take some time to dissect them. Chuck could certainly help you out with this more than myself or just about anyone. I hope he chimes in.

Dave

[kfletcher]

Hey Bill,
I was taught the same as Dave. I was also told the sounds were from Jimmy, to be learned as, "training wheels" as Dave stated. I personally have used them to explore internal energy flow and diaphragmatic breathing while working out and doing form. The only other addition I was given, is to breathe through the nose and exhale through the mouth. Also, time them with the strike or exertion. If used properly, for what they are designed for, they will provide benefit. I haven't been taught a 5Th sound. The sounds are the same for weapons. The sounds are not necessary after you learn to breathe properly, however I have heard Jimmy use Ha in a demo video with a final downward strike more than once. I have also heard others use them.  He didn't use the other sounds, in videos I've seen, while doing other movements though...... if memory serves. Breathing is critical and should not be taken lightly. Some may develop proper breathing instinctively and have no need for the sounds. Others may need them for learning proper breathing. Some may never learn to breathe properly. I guess like so many other things, it depends on the individual. It has been taught to me as being part of the art, by Chuck, and he has drilled me often on proper breathing. I know it works.

Kenneth

[RonG]

Kenneth,
I forgot my password and registered again but in the process I remembered it so I will stick with this one.
Breathing is very important but it is only a piece of what sound training is about, the sounds are only a tool that teaches you how to manipulate parts of your body to unite with your attack movement, the goal is reaction without sound.  The sounds that Jimmy and others make during demos are to add dynamics to a demo, like icing on a cake.
Through practice and feel the sounds teach you to constrict or tense various areas which add to your strike/throw or movement.  They really are training sounds not fighting sounds if you understand their use.
The 5th sound was Ha-ee (which Bill Lasiter uses so often), I found it in my notes the other day, I wrote it as a chop (I think, I have to locate it again), I also think it can be used in throwing.
PS If anyone does not think they work, reverse the different sounds and you can feel the power the move loses.

[kfletcher]

Master Gatewood,
Thanks for the input on the sounds.
Kenneth

[ccory]

We do have the 4 sounds. Ron and I had discussed the fith sound HA for a downward motion as in palming downward punching downward or throwing. Remember the sounds are to teach you to breath properly. If you test them with the things they are designed for you will see they do enhance your power. Jimmy made it very clear, you learn them to learn to breath properly to deliver max power with each move, but you would never speak them in a fight. Sounds travels faster than your fists.

Chuck

[Dave]

You failed to mention what this "hidden" sound is or does....... Ive never heard of it.  Is it just a variation of Ha?   I also don't know of the disagreement that you mentioned. I think everyone here is in full agreement of the sounds with just minor variation between us.   

[johnnywwheeler]

     No Dave.
    Ha. Is used when a large amount of force is needed.  95% of the time Ha would be applied.
    Driving through the attacker
    Ho. The lips almost come together as if your were going to whistle.
    The variations are there.
    Like Dik. Lo Sifu said no matter how you kick, use Dik. That also doesn't mean he didn't say use it only for a snap-kick, front power, etc. He could have said that too.
                                    John

[johnnywwheeler]

       Nothing secret....lol.
      Just hard work and a lot of time.
        Jon,
       It was a sincere question.
                 John

[RonG]

A few of us (First Generation) try to get information out about our Art so future generations will be able to see the richness of what Grand Master Woo taught us.  Then to watch the banter of everyone's view as to what they think (usually based on what someone told them), but they have never studied with or even met our Grand Master. 
Doesn't it make a difference that I have him on tape teaching and explaining how, why and what for.  I don't make up things, yes I have my views and I always try to make sure that I separate those so you know what I say comes from him and what I have learned from my experience.
Much of this Art has already disappeared, then to take a subject such as this one and hear the made up sounds that people say come from Jimmy makes me feel, "why do I bother, it seems to be a waste of time". 
This is about the only San Soo forum left (many have closed) that I would feel comfortable to post on as it still has some that want to learn and not debate just for the fun of it.  This art is very serious to me and I do not want to play games.  JP's site is dying a slow death, it is not being properly moderated and mostly meaningless posts are being posted every few days, I have been told by many that they don't even read it any longer which is a real shame.  Do not let a few ruin your site.

[johnnywwheeler]

    I agree. I want to learn more and share.
                      John

[ccory]

I told you about a 5th sound.  The sound is HAW. It comes from the center of gravity below your navel. It is a downward strike or a throwing motion pointing to the floor. It is a breathing out sound. If you had the sense to try it before you jumped to conclusions you would know that it has merrit. I have it noted in my notes so take it of leave it.

Second the Haiiee that Bill Lasiter has used for as long as i have known him, if you watch him he uses it for a straight punch, a throw and just about everything else. I have no knowledge of Jimmy ever giving that sound.

And you people wonder why the First Generation Masters don't post on any of the sites. Read your own posts to find out why.

If you don't want to use it, it is fine with me. Now get that silly cartoon off my web site!

Chuck

[ccory]

Jon I did not think it was funny at all. If you are going to talk San Soo keep it serious.

Chuck

[kfletcher]

Jon,
"Should we take ourselves too seriously?" is brazenly close to challenging him. I don't want to see that happen. He took the cartoon as mocking his post. It makes sense with your previous link disputing any benifit of the sounds. The link actually was in disfavor of them. If you say this was a joke and has bad timing ....okay. But the rest needs to stop before it goes any further. I've always shown you respect, but I won't allow this thread to continue down this course.
Kenneth

[Dave]

Im proud to announce that us here at San Soo TN are all morons just like those out on the west coast. I find it funny, yes funny that our intelligence is questioned by a junior high student.  I also find it funny that the "voice".. no wait, the "voices" of San Soo feel that we are inferior and we have no sense of humor.  The irony is that this image seems to be portrayed by one(s) who hide behind an avatar of a fantasy comic book character. I was 14 once...I was also 12 once. I also had an enormous comic collection, but I gave them away because they weren't worth the space they were kept in and did nothing other than collect dust and make me realize that they were a poor financial investment...and quite frankly a waste of space.  Hilarious might be the word that I'm looking for, yes that's it. I go to bed every night and FANTASIZE that I could learn real Kung Fu the way that it should be.

I'm also proud to announce that us here in the land of the lost are never disrespectful to anyone and practice a Kung Fu lifestyle that includes a philosophy of treating people with respect. This is strengthened and endorsed by our friends that visit us from all around the country in our beloved community.

Minions is a term that I haven't heard in a while, at least in regards to something not pertaining to dungeons and dragons or Final Fantasy.

This is something that my 14 year old brother would find amusing.

Cheers (yes, beer in hand) (which is something that should be done by an adult...not a jr high student) to you my friends. (yes, I used the more positive adjective in response.).  I can only hope for the day when we can meet in person and have peaceful conversations like real men...amidst all the fog.  It's actually quite sunny in TN.

Deepest regards,
Dave (minion #12)