usnken
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« on: January 22, 2008, 10:35:13 PM » |
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All, a while back I heard about that fight involving a San Soo guy and some MMA guy for a $5,000 prize where the San Soo guy got his arm broken. Last night I found it online and watched it for the first time. I thought I would post it here for discussion purposes... (Its not pretty.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8OdaebwIve read lots of discussions about it online. Some people say MMA is better. Others say the San Soo guy was not smart for entering into a competition involving rules (no eye gouging and a referee to say 'go'). Others say the San Soo guy was not a well trained San Soo black belt. Any thoughts? |
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kfletcher
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 08:48:32 AM » |
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Hey Ken,
It seems this fight continues to rear its head from time to time. There is a long history of it that has been posted on other sites. I doubt you'll get to much of a response to this question because it has been discussed so much. It has also been, at times, a heated discussion. I wasn't there and have only heard about "motivations", experience etc. The one statement that I will make is it was a huge mismatch. Alot of people credit him for fighting someone of this caliber. I think he would have been better to walk away. Sometimes with martial arts you can build a glass house around yourself and begin thinking you are better than you are. I'm afraid this may have been the case. MMA vs San Soo? Not really. I don't think the fight proved much other than to be careful with who or what you get into. I think San Soo is the superior art and am not afraid to state that. However, because the art is superior doesn't mean the fighter is superior. There are alot of training, conditioning and experience differences between a typical San Soo student and a professional or aspiring to be professional MMA fighter. Alot comes down to the individuals and not just the art. Part of our Fut Ga training should include a true assessment of our skills and knowing when to fight or when to wait for when the odds are better.
Kenneth
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« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 08:50:09 AM by kfletcher »
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San Soo Sifu
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2008, 11:33:55 AM » |
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Sometimes with martial arts you can build a glass house around yourself and begin thinking you are better than you are. That, people, has got to be the quote of the year (2008)! Brilliantly stated, Kenneth! (You don't mind if I steal it, do you?)  |
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usnken
Jr. Member
Posts: 95
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2008, 05:28:43 PM » |
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Thanks for the replies. I had heard of the video before....I just hadnt seen it, thats all. I really posted it so others could see what the hype was about. It wasnt what I expected based on what I had heard. I certainly never intended for there to be heated discussions/arguments about it.
So, check it out if you havent seen it, everyone.
Thanks again guys!
Ken
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kfletcher
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2008, 06:28:12 PM » |
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Thanks Sifu Ken, there is certainly no problem with asking about it. I think the topic was more emotional when it first happened. The fight was very one sided and a significant injury was incurred. I just don't know enough about it. My experience is the people that do usually don't say much. Have a good one. Kenneth |
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Neuro_Mason
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2008, 03:25:16 PM » |
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I don't know... humm.... well, this guy wasnt doing San Soo if you ask me.... what he did I could have done before i had any training... i don't understand though.... i mean, if it was controlled then why did his arm get broken... because if it were me and somebody said "hey anything goes AND you might get a broken bone" lol i mean, i could have done a ton of things to this guy EVEN with him laying on top of me!! I believe as soon as my arm broke i would have made the MMA guy blind for life by bursting his eye balls with my fingers!!!!! The Kung Fu Guy had plenty of chances to hurt this guy if he wanted OR EVEN KNEW HOW TO! Like i said, what he did isn't any kind of San Soo i have been trained to recognize. Being in a submission hold is like a rope being tied into a knot... it can ALWAYS BE UNTIED if you just know how to do it... no questions asked. I am not a high rank at all in San Soo.. Im a yellow belt but my Sifu (Master Larry Wikel) has done such a great job teaching me that im already confident in just what i know. (Confident.... not Cocky...) Brad All, a while back I heard about that fight involving a San Soo guy and some MMA guy for a $5,000 prize where the San Soo guy got his arm broken. Last night I found it online and watched it for the first time. I thought I would post it here for discussion purposes... (Its not pretty.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8OdaebwIve read lots of discussions about it online. Some people say MMA is better. Others say the San Soo guy was not smart for entering into a competition involving rules (no eye gouging and a referee to say 'go'). Others say the San Soo guy was not a well trained San Soo black belt. Any thoughts? |
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Chuck Cory
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 03:33:52 PM » |
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Welcome Nuro-Mason. Regarding you question about san soo and MMa, check out www.insidekung-fu.com and do a search for San Soo. Then pick the article The Best of Both Worlds. I think this will give you information to talk to your MMa friends regarding San Soo and MMA. Chuck Cory |
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San Soo Sifu
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 10:22:52 PM » |
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unstpabl1
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2008, 08:37:49 PM » |
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i looked up some vids on this guy doing MMA. Not sure where the san soo was. In the end it looked like a MMA structure. Though the hands were not as tight. Kinda open in stand up. Pretty good on the gound
Its interesting because I saw more similarities to San Soo in the Fight Quest Silat episode. Watch the Windmills as they circle each other
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Neuro_Mason
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Posts: 27
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 05:22:17 PM » |
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Master Cory, Thank you for the warm welcome, i appreciate that. I have actually already taken a look at that article... and while i thought that was "Neat" and all that Kyle was able to sort of Combine the 2 styles so he could do sport, i still have a few thoughts about it. First off, i have actually talked to somebody thats very close to Kyle... (Not naming names) but they are very good friends. This person i talked to happens to know San Soo. Well, i basicly just gave him a call and wanted to talk briefly about why Kyle combined the 2 styles. Was it "Just for Sport" or was there more to it. When i asked this person if they thought i would need to learn Brazilian Jiu jitsu to put with my San Soo his reply was " San Soo is Great and all but, how do you know??" He said: "If you go up against anybody that knows BJJ any at all, that i wouldnt stand a chance". He said that even though he likes San Soo, he's convinced that almost every fight will wind up on the ground. (NOTE: My Sifu Master Larry Wikel Told me that even though they train by that method, He's been in Countless situations where he never once went to the ground) I hope nobody thinks im "doubting" our art. Thats not it at all!!! As a matter of Fact, i may have answered my own question because the more i think about this the more it makes since.. SAN SOO IS A COMPLETE ART... WE HAVE EVERYTHING WE NEED TO ADAPT TO ANY GIVEN SITUATION..... im not saying anything bad about BJJ but i must admit, I HAVE ALL THE CONFIDENCE THAT I NEED IN SAN SOO! I DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A RING OR MAT AND PUT SOMEBODY IN A HOLD TO PROVE IT! AND IM NOT GONNA GO OUT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT TO PROVE IT EITHER!!! MARTIAL ART LIKE SAN SOO "CHOI LI HO FUT HUNG" WAS CREATED TO KEEP AND UPHOLD PEACE... NOT PLAY AROUND IN FRONT OF A LIVE AUDIENCE... ive heard it somewhere before and it still holds true... "A real fight isnt pretty like the ones you see on t.v" im certain that if somebody was seriously injured or killed in front of all those people the room would probably be silent...  ok.. im done ranting... forgive me for going on... but one more thing.... lol.... if a BJJ guy happens to get into a fight in the real world and takes his enemy to the ground and gets him in a hold... what does he do about the enemies friends who are now about to kick the daylights out of him since he's already on the ground and has all his hands and feet tied up?? Welcome Nuro-Mason. Regarding you question about san soo and MMa, check out www.insidekung-fu.com and do a search for San Soo. Then pick the article The Best of Both Worlds. I think this will give you information to talk to your MMa friends regarding San Soo and MMA. Chuck Cory |
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Chuck Cory
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 06:45:23 PM » |
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In the article they mention that San Soo is the art they would use on the street, not MMA. MMA has rules. You cannot go into the eyes, against the knees do a frontal choke with your weight on your opponents throat, ETC. I have been in quire a few fights in my life including my time bouncing for bars and security firms. I have never been taken down to the ground. I am not saying that it could not happen, we all stumble or make mistakes, but if down gouging to put out the eyes, crushing the windpipe, hitting to the base of the skull, using pressure points are all things we would do that is against the rules in the MMA. The bottom line here is, If you train by rules, I have found you try to fight by them too. A skilled San Soo Man is not bound by those rules, nor will they fight by them. They cannot use much if any of San Soo in the MMA matches due to the rules. So a San Soo man who plays by rules is at a disadvantage.
Chuck
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Neuro_Mason
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 04:18:07 PM » |
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I Totally Agree Master Cory.. Totally Agree... In the article they mention that San Soo is the art they would use on the street, not MMA. MMA has rules. You cannot go into the eyes, against the knees do a frontal choke with your weight on your opponents throat, ETC. I have been in quire a few fights in my life including my time bouncing for bars and security firms. I have never been taken down to the ground. I am not saying that it could not happen, we all stumble or make mistakes, but if down gouging to put out the eyes, crushing the windpipe, hitting to the base of the skull, using pressure points are all things we would do that is against the rules in the MMA. The bottom line here is, If you train by rules, I have found you try to fight by them too. A skilled San Soo Man is not bound by those rules, nor will they fight by them. They cannot use much if any of San Soo in the MMA matches due to the rules. So a San Soo man who plays by rules is at a disadvantage.
Chuck
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sansooman
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2008, 08:19:54 AM » |
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Watching the video again it seems that Shawn was trying for the wrong thing, why did he not used the knees to hit the ribs. They were open and the legs are the strongest of muscles? I mean he could get them up in the air and tried to wrap them around Marsh "Wrong Answer Though" Marsh was having none of that. Now why did not a San Soo person, who has been on the Mat more than Shawn (from my understanding he had not much training prior to the fight, just some one off the street. The folks who had done this should be just as embarrassed with the out come of this demo. Our art is up there for the fighting and superior methods used to most as other's. But we always must remember never to judge the book by its' cover until a few chapters had been read and ever be so humble. As my teacher has told the class take some one who has done nothing but kicks all his or hers life, how would defend against that person once you saw them work? That is a very valid point for the person has to be lightning fast and very accurate. Just as Jimmy starting out training at such a young age. Jimmy probally had the best benefit of them all and that was his uncle and the ties to the family tradition. From all the videos and stories I have heard in the past few years, Jimmy is the real deal and a fighter of his soul nature, teacher and an awesome human being to say the least..
This thread has been past on from site to site and I still get a grin out of watching the video, again it has been through the mill and heated exchange of words have been pass through. But like no other art we get along just dandy for the family tides that keeps us together and we will laugh about it down the road, just sibling wanting attention for our thoughts.
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« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 08:28:40 AM by sansooman »
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Neuro_Mason
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 10:18:29 AM » |
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How Do we even know this guy is a real San Soo Practicioner??? All im sayin is, i have never been taught to do what he did in the situation that he was in! I mean, what was he trin to do!??? His Actual First Mistake was to agree to fight.... lets really think this through now... were trained to adapt to anything... and the way we adapt progresses the longer were in this art..... i may only be a low belt rank but, in my mind i do understand what the art is about. If im not mistaken, Lou Sifu always talked about the "Element of surprise"... in the real world, you don't get into a fighting stance or do anything until they attack you... the less the enemy knows about what you know the more advantage you have..... always keep them guessing... because that will keep them one step behind you.... what this guy did was first off, allow this other guy to know that he knew a Martial Art... so naturally this other guy was prepared... (especially since it was a staged fight) secondly what was he tryin to do!!?!?!?!? this just wasnt San Soo... even if he practices San Soo.... he completely failed at the strategy behind it.. or underestimated his opponent.... im always told that if i ever get into a confrontation with somebody that i HAD BETTER always assume they know some deadly art!!!!!! Fight Everybody the same and NEVER LET UP!! (Until im not in danger anymore). How bad they get hurt and how much pain they feel is in my hands at the very moment they move on me....
Thank you,
Brad (Salute)
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sansooman
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 05:54:16 AM » |
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San Soo Sifu would be the best person to explain. From my understanding the San Soo guy, Shawn was just some one from the street who had about 6 weeks of training. John Marsh is a full time stduents of the art's and has been training long hours and through the week, Shawn was not even near the ability of Marsh or any other martial artist who has been around for a while. I will give Shawn credit for standing up and steppin in to work, but he did not have enough tolls or experience to get the job done.
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